My only thought is that trying to thwart the untrammelled and exponentially growing power of the 'new order' is essentially impossible. That genie is well and truly out of the bottle - and so it should be harnessed for the benefit of Democracy.
If you can't beat 'em, you've got to retailiate with the same tactics, haven't you?
Mark, the simple thing is that politicians who we need to make better decisions, first of all need to find out who these better decisions need to be made for. Their party and its financial supporters or the nation and its population. Secondly, if someone in political charge is lying we quite desperately need to find a hitting way to call that person out. Not only the likes of me and you but those poor wallies who think that the likes of Trump, Musk, Farage and Lowe have their best interest in mind. We need some of the people like the WWII cartoonists who produced cartoons like Millionen stehen hinter mir, or some of the comparable British stuff. Make them ridiculous and angry; make them cross a threshold that reveals who they really are.
Pearl, it’s nice people who stick to the rules and live a life of wanting to be a decent member of society against people who can’t care a toss what they do as long as they ‘win’. We need to find ways to make society able to pester these people with humour and nevertheless the truth. Check out a 1930’s cartoon showing Hitler receiving a big backhander whilst saying that millions (of people) stand behind him. It’s known as Millionen stehen hinter mir: have a look on the internet.
You are completely justified in what you’re saying, Mark. Unfortunately the politicians that we ‘democratically’ elect either have tagged themselves on to the internet powers that be, or haven’t a clue how to deal with it. It is just another signal that over on this side of the Atlantic neither side of the silly two-sided parliament really has any clue at all; either about democracy or about filthy political habits that are being pumped in.
I think your decision to put 'democratically' in quotes hits the nail on the head, Peter. Our democratic system is failing badly now. Big money buys the attention of our leaders and inevitably skews their decision-making. We seek reliable information on which to base our own democratic decisions and find too much disinformation and propaganda not supported by evidence. And First Past the Post translates the rainbow of views expressed by the people across the country at election time into a monochrome Commons that all-too-often reduces debate on nuanced issues into an idiotic black-and-white, them-and-us charade. I know I go on about it too much but we need parliament to accurately the reflect the myriad views held by the people of this country if we want our MPs to make better decisions.
Politicians and civil servants are unwilling to challenge big tech infiltration of every aspect of society because it might mess up their retirement income as consultants and lobbyists.
LOOK-U.K.-voter fact is H-Tach-APPs Is here to stay but do remember you do not need to put it on your M-Phones to brain wash you and make you lazy.
**
I DO-NOT own a M-Phone so the brain washing by APPs is not
For me I am still old school letter email communication and a land line Phone only.
**
Take note U.K. people it is a proven FACT NO Apps firm on your M-Phones can give you a 100% guarantee you M-Phone APPs will not be Hacked by outside uses this includes Mr Musk he cannot say your M-Phones will not be Hacked if you use his APPs also.
**
Now you U.K. voter could ask Mr Musk if he intends to rig our U.K. -G.E. what is he offering us British White/ voter to vote for who he represents and which party he represents??
**
Will Mr Musk promise to sort out the mass illegal immigration and Terrorist boat people crossing the channel in the U.K. to enter illegally that are trashing our U.K. people way of life now every day Y-N?
Q—For Mr Musk and U.K. business people that are trying to rig the U.K. G.E.
Q-1
Dose Mr Trump know what you are doing Mr Musk Y-N?
Q-2
Mr Musk Is this why you left the U.S. cabinet quick Y-N?
**
British White people you pick who runs our country not U.S. citizens or illegal immigrant or Terrorist boat people remember that when voting next G.E.
Also remember Tory -Labour -Lib-Dems have failed the U.K. for years and proven they cannot run our country right this a proven fact voter of U.K.-Wales-Scotland-N-Ireland areas.
I am asking what the material and defining difference is. What is it that justifies the unique - or even general - attribution of a causal link between the things you raise and one or other group. My view is that each group consists of a hugely diverse range of individuals (for example, the white British group includes people as diverse as the King and the Yorkshire Ripper) and that any characterisation applied generally across the group is unlikely to be reasonable. I can understand the material difference between British citizens and citizens from other nations, and the differentiations that are justified on that basis. But I cannot see how skin colour plays any meaningful role in the discussion you seen to be proposing. I come from Northern Ireland. Northern Ireland is part of the UK and many of its people carry British passports. Within my lifetime, Northern Ireland was the source of some of the most devastating terrorism this country has ever experienced. White British people carrying out barbaric acts of terrorism on UK streets. Is that in any way less of a concern than barbaric acts of terrorism carried out by non-white non-British people on UK streets? If not, why are your comments laden with references to skin colour and nationality, and not focussed on the core issue?
But can you tell me why they protest on our U.K. streets to tell us British people
Black lives matter but our White British people dose not now in U.K. ??
**
Can you tell me why Iran supporters of Migrant people protest on our streets about the way their own Gov treats the not us British people yet they start unrest in the U.K. with White people towards the migrant people why?
**
Tell me why they will not go home to their own country to protest on their streets and fight to get back their country not protest in the U.K.
Is it becusae the elected Govt they voted into power will kill them all so the U.K. people have to put up with the protesting on our streets and effecting our way of life why?
Its not us White British people at war with Iran its the U.S. so why not take your protest marchers to the U.S. to be hared by Trump??????????????
1) No. There ARE illegal immigrants (as there are in most countries) but no rational person would equate that to an invasion, especially not if they took time to look at the evidence.
2) No. They are mostly people genuinely fleeing persecution or chancing their arm in the hope of securing a better life. Terrorists are a very rare breed indeed. The idea that any terrorist organisation would load all their operatives into open boats and send them towards an enemy with all its resources ready and waiting on the other side of the Channel is laughable.
You need to start defining some terms if you want this discussion to go anywhere. For example, what is that thing that is so uniquely white and British that it does not exist in people of any other colour or nationality? What constitutes an invasion? What indicates to you that that this country - 70m people, rich by global standards, educated population, technologically advanced economy - is being ‘overrun’? What does ‘overrun’ mean to you? And what research have you done to establish whether there may be alternative explanations for what ails this country?
Literally no-one’s child is having another religion ‘rammed down their necks’. They may be being educated about those other religions but that is a healthy thing - so they don’t grow up ignorant and misinformed.
FINAL reply to your views I disagree with fully Mark
Q-Why do you not put up illegal immigrant and Terrorist boat people in your home and pay fully for their up-keep Mark -NOT us u.k. taxpayer in the U.K.
I beg to differ about the religious nut trying to ram their religious nut way down our kids necks its going on now in the U.K. --Ask the parent of the kids that complain to them about religious education in U.K. school NOW.
**
Illegal immigrant are not seeking help in the U.K. or they would not protest on our streets trashing our way of life -- A fact be you like it or Not Mark
**
The Boat people are NOT Refugees -they a Terrorist just here to do crime make life hell for us British people this should come to a stop full stop!!
You seem to have an unusual - possibly incorrect - view of what British society is and how it works, Roy.
Again, you are specifically referencing White British people without explaining why you are making that distinction in this context. (As far as I'm aware, no-one properly connected to the Black Lives Matter movement has ever suggested that white lives don't matter - it's not a zero-sum issue and that would be a ridiculously counterproductive claim to make.)
British people - whatever the colour of their skin - have a right to lawful protest. Any marches on our streets will have been organised in pursuit of that right and in consultation with the local police (I know this - I've organised a few in my time). It's not for you, or me, or anyone else to tell any British person what they should or shouldn't protest about - as long as their protest meets that 'lawful' condition. If British people want to protest about something their government is doing, that seems perfectly reasonable to me - again, as long as it is organised and conducted within the law.
You are not obliged to take part in any of those protests. And you have a right to disagree with the views that prompted those protests. That's all perfectly normal in a functioning democracy. It is not something you should regard as a threat to you personally, and it's frankly ridiculous for anyone to suggest that it's a threat to the entire nation's identity.
If you want to draw meaningful lines across society, you would do better to draw them between people who do good things and those who do bad. Those who pursue peace and understanding across communities and those who champion stir hatred and division. Those who seek the truth about people in different social circles and those who spread ignorant falsehoods about them. You will find examples of all those types in all communities - white, non-white, British, non-British.
You do yourself a disservice by accepting these false accounts. If I were you, I'd look around me a bit more to see what's really going on in the country, and maybe choose better heroes than the ones you're listening to now. (I say that with genuine respect.)
Your-words-not-mine---You do yourself a disservice by accepting these false accounts. If I were you, I'd look around me a bit more to see what's really going on in the country, and maybe choose better heroes than the ones you're listening to now. (I say that with genuine respect.)
Q-1
So tell me is the U.K. NOT being invaded by illegal immigrant
(black migrant from,outside the U.K. Y-N?
Q-2
So tell me is the U.K. Not being invaded by Terrorist boat people
(that are NOT refugee at all and 100% of them Black people not white Y-N?
**
Fact is our U.K.-Govt let the Illegals immigrant and Terrorist boat people flood into the U.K. too use them has Black slave worker to please the rich party funders outside the U.K. that employ on cheap slave low paid jobs.
**
Brexit came then all the rules on wages employment changed and the rich business people in the U.K. could NOT use Immigrant people on low wages so wage were increased ---But the U.K. Tory -Labour did not stop the in port of workers now we are over run with illegal immigrant --Green Card over stayer-and Terrorist boat people that are not white British citizens but are brown-black coloured people taking over the U.K. NOW and trying to ram their religious way down our necks of our Kids this must stop fully.
France is on to Musk and are blowing the whistle. The UK would be well advised to do the same
Yes, Lesley...watching all that with interest.
As ever Mark Kieran provides a crystal clear explanation of the dangers being posed to Democracy. Another clarion call!
Thank you, Mark, I hope your message can be more influential than those put out by the algorithm masters !
Thank you, Aidan. As always, you are very kind. 🙏
My only thought is that trying to thwart the untrammelled and exponentially growing power of the 'new order' is essentially impossible. That genie is well and truly out of the bottle - and so it should be harnessed for the benefit of Democracy.
If you can't beat 'em, you've got to retailiate with the same tactics, haven't you?
Mark, the simple thing is that politicians who we need to make better decisions, first of all need to find out who these better decisions need to be made for. Their party and its financial supporters or the nation and its population. Secondly, if someone in political charge is lying we quite desperately need to find a hitting way to call that person out. Not only the likes of me and you but those poor wallies who think that the likes of Trump, Musk, Farage and Lowe have their best interest in mind. We need some of the people like the WWII cartoonists who produced cartoons like Millionen stehen hinter mir, or some of the comparable British stuff. Make them ridiculous and angry; make them cross a threshold that reveals who they really are.
Musk is a menace that must be addressed by democracies. I believe he is facing action in France?
Pearl, it’s nice people who stick to the rules and live a life of wanting to be a decent member of society against people who can’t care a toss what they do as long as they ‘win’. We need to find ways to make society able to pester these people with humour and nevertheless the truth. Check out a 1930’s cartoon showing Hitler receiving a big backhander whilst saying that millions (of people) stand behind him. It’s known as Millionen stehen hinter mir: have a look on the internet.
You are completely justified in what you’re saying, Mark. Unfortunately the politicians that we ‘democratically’ elect either have tagged themselves on to the internet powers that be, or haven’t a clue how to deal with it. It is just another signal that over on this side of the Atlantic neither side of the silly two-sided parliament really has any clue at all; either about democracy or about filthy political habits that are being pumped in.
I think your decision to put 'democratically' in quotes hits the nail on the head, Peter. Our democratic system is failing badly now. Big money buys the attention of our leaders and inevitably skews their decision-making. We seek reliable information on which to base our own democratic decisions and find too much disinformation and propaganda not supported by evidence. And First Past the Post translates the rainbow of views expressed by the people across the country at election time into a monochrome Commons that all-too-often reduces debate on nuanced issues into an idiotic black-and-white, them-and-us charade. I know I go on about it too much but we need parliament to accurately the reflect the myriad views held by the people of this country if we want our MPs to make better decisions.
Politicians and civil servants are unwilling to challenge big tech infiltration of every aspect of society because it might mess up their retirement income as consultants and lobbyists.
I sense there’s more than a hint of truth in this, Chris!
Needed to be said and you’ve done so brilliantly. Thank you.
As always, the answer is a proper written constitution. You can read one at https://payhip.com/b/CWyrc
This gets scarier by the day. I would be interested to know more about how the French are approaching this.
Capitalism makes money not peace of mind
Pull the plug on X and any other malign operator.
Musk is using high tech to influence UK politics
And we're relying on defences designed for an
age of leaflets and loudspeakers to protect us.
**
LOOK-U.K.-voter fact is H-Tach-APPs Is here to stay but do remember you do not need to put it on your M-Phones to brain wash you and make you lazy.
**
I DO-NOT own a M-Phone so the brain washing by APPs is not
For me I am still old school letter email communication and a land line Phone only.
**
Take note U.K. people it is a proven FACT NO Apps firm on your M-Phones can give you a 100% guarantee you M-Phone APPs will not be Hacked by outside uses this includes Mr Musk he cannot say your M-Phones will not be Hacked if you use his APPs also.
**
Now you U.K. voter could ask Mr Musk if he intends to rig our U.K. -G.E. what is he offering us British White/ voter to vote for who he represents and which party he represents??
**
Will Mr Musk promise to sort out the mass illegal immigration and Terrorist boat people crossing the channel in the U.K. to enter illegally that are trashing our U.K. people way of life now every day Y-N?
Q—For Mr Musk and U.K. business people that are trying to rig the U.K. G.E.
Q-1
Dose Mr Trump know what you are doing Mr Musk Y-N?
Q-2
Mr Musk Is this why you left the U.S. cabinet quick Y-N?
**
British White people you pick who runs our country not U.S. citizens or illegal immigrant or Terrorist boat people remember that when voting next G.E.
Also remember Tory -Labour -Lib-Dems have failed the U.K. for years and proven they cannot run our country right this a proven fact voter of U.K.-Wales-Scotland-N-Ireland areas.
I am asking what the material and defining difference is. What is it that justifies the unique - or even general - attribution of a causal link between the things you raise and one or other group. My view is that each group consists of a hugely diverse range of individuals (for example, the white British group includes people as diverse as the King and the Yorkshire Ripper) and that any characterisation applied generally across the group is unlikely to be reasonable. I can understand the material difference between British citizens and citizens from other nations, and the differentiations that are justified on that basis. But I cannot see how skin colour plays any meaningful role in the discussion you seen to be proposing. I come from Northern Ireland. Northern Ireland is part of the UK and many of its people carry British passports. Within my lifetime, Northern Ireland was the source of some of the most devastating terrorism this country has ever experienced. White British people carrying out barbaric acts of terrorism on UK streets. Is that in any way less of a concern than barbaric acts of terrorism carried out by non-white non-British people on UK streets? If not, why are your comments laden with references to skin colour and nationality, and not focussed on the core issue?
YOUR VIEWS ARE NOTED
But can you tell me why they protest on our U.K. streets to tell us British people
Black lives matter but our White British people dose not now in U.K. ??
**
Can you tell me why Iran supporters of Migrant people protest on our streets about the way their own Gov treats the not us British people yet they start unrest in the U.K. with White people towards the migrant people why?
**
Tell me why they will not go home to their own country to protest on their streets and fight to get back their country not protest in the U.K.
Is it becusae the elected Govt they voted into power will kill them all so the U.K. people have to put up with the protesting on our streets and effecting our way of life why?
Its not us White British people at war with Iran its the U.S. so why not take your protest marchers to the U.S. to be hared by Trump??????????????
1) No. There ARE illegal immigrants (as there are in most countries) but no rational person would equate that to an invasion, especially not if they took time to look at the evidence.
2) No. They are mostly people genuinely fleeing persecution or chancing their arm in the hope of securing a better life. Terrorists are a very rare breed indeed. The idea that any terrorist organisation would load all their operatives into open boats and send them towards an enemy with all its resources ready and waiting on the other side of the Channel is laughable.
You need to start defining some terms if you want this discussion to go anywhere. For example, what is that thing that is so uniquely white and British that it does not exist in people of any other colour or nationality? What constitutes an invasion? What indicates to you that that this country - 70m people, rich by global standards, educated population, technologically advanced economy - is being ‘overrun’? What does ‘overrun’ mean to you? And what research have you done to establish whether there may be alternative explanations for what ails this country?
Literally no-one’s child is having another religion ‘rammed down their necks’. They may be being educated about those other religions but that is a healthy thing - so they don’t grow up ignorant and misinformed.
FINAL reply to your views I disagree with fully Mark
Q-Why do you not put up illegal immigrant and Terrorist boat people in your home and pay fully for their up-keep Mark -NOT us u.k. taxpayer in the U.K.
I beg to differ about the religious nut trying to ram their religious nut way down our kids necks its going on now in the U.K. --Ask the parent of the kids that complain to them about religious education in U.K. school NOW.
**
Illegal immigrant are not seeking help in the U.K. or they would not protest on our streets trashing our way of life -- A fact be you like it or Not Mark
**
The Boat people are NOT Refugees -they a Terrorist just here to do crime make life hell for us British people this should come to a stop full stop!!
GOOD BYE
You seem to have an unusual - possibly incorrect - view of what British society is and how it works, Roy.
Again, you are specifically referencing White British people without explaining why you are making that distinction in this context. (As far as I'm aware, no-one properly connected to the Black Lives Matter movement has ever suggested that white lives don't matter - it's not a zero-sum issue and that would be a ridiculously counterproductive claim to make.)
British people - whatever the colour of their skin - have a right to lawful protest. Any marches on our streets will have been organised in pursuit of that right and in consultation with the local police (I know this - I've organised a few in my time). It's not for you, or me, or anyone else to tell any British person what they should or shouldn't protest about - as long as their protest meets that 'lawful' condition. If British people want to protest about something their government is doing, that seems perfectly reasonable to me - again, as long as it is organised and conducted within the law.
You are not obliged to take part in any of those protests. And you have a right to disagree with the views that prompted those protests. That's all perfectly normal in a functioning democracy. It is not something you should regard as a threat to you personally, and it's frankly ridiculous for anyone to suggest that it's a threat to the entire nation's identity.
If you want to draw meaningful lines across society, you would do better to draw them between people who do good things and those who do bad. Those who pursue peace and understanding across communities and those who champion stir hatred and division. Those who seek the truth about people in different social circles and those who spread ignorant falsehoods about them. You will find examples of all those types in all communities - white, non-white, British, non-British.
You do yourself a disservice by accepting these false accounts. If I were you, I'd look around me a bit more to see what's really going on in the country, and maybe choose better heroes than the ones you're listening to now. (I say that with genuine respect.)
Your-words-not-mine---You do yourself a disservice by accepting these false accounts. If I were you, I'd look around me a bit more to see what's really going on in the country, and maybe choose better heroes than the ones you're listening to now. (I say that with genuine respect.)
Q-1
So tell me is the U.K. NOT being invaded by illegal immigrant
(black migrant from,outside the U.K. Y-N?
Q-2
So tell me is the U.K. Not being invaded by Terrorist boat people
(that are NOT refugee at all and 100% of them Black people not white Y-N?
**
Fact is our U.K.-Govt let the Illegals immigrant and Terrorist boat people flood into the U.K. too use them has Black slave worker to please the rich party funders outside the U.K. that employ on cheap slave low paid jobs.
**
Brexit came then all the rules on wages employment changed and the rich business people in the U.K. could NOT use Immigrant people on low wages so wage were increased ---But the U.K. Tory -Labour did not stop the in port of workers now we are over run with illegal immigrant --Green Card over stayer-and Terrorist boat people that are not white British citizens but are brown-black coloured people taking over the U.K. NOW and trying to ram their religious way down our necks of our Kids this must stop fully.
Roy, what is the difference between a white British person and a non-white British person?
Mark, can you just block this idiotic bigot?
I'm all for freedom of speech and expression, but that freedom comes with responsibility and "Roy" doesn't have that.
Can I take it from your reply
you are asking what is the colour of skin got to do with White
British people being crapped on by our U.K. Govt now -Tory-Labour alike
in favour of immigrant votes be them Black -Brown or White .
The White vote of U.K. are being forced out of our country by migrant voters
illegal immigrants--Terrorist boat people and you happy with that sir Y-N?
Bollocks