TBF experts told the government, as they told previous governments , that this act was a bad idea, which would not achieve the stated objectives. That Farage is jumping on it is indeed populist, but that doesn't make him wrong. Just this once.
They did. In fact my colleagues in Open Britain and Fair Vote UK - and lots of fellow campaigners in other eminent organisations - spent an enormous amount of time and energy telling them that this legislation was flawed. But I don't remember Farage doing the same then, and I think it's incumbent on someone who holds himself out as the next Prime Minister to table constructive alternatives before taking such a bold position.
What does expose him as "wrong" is having no better substitute. It is wrong for a potential government to basically say it has no plan or no intention of fixing harms - social, economic or otherwise.
This is simply an admission of unfitness for the job. Complaining about the state of the country but standing on a platform of doing nothing about it is an original approach, to say the least
Although I loathe Farage, I think he has the tiniest, homeopathic point here. I was opposing this legislation in early 2019. As a programmer who has been working as such for nearly 30 years (and was learning my trade over a decade before that) I have a pretty good understanding of how flawed this implementation was going to be.
And so it is. We've already seen VPN registrations through the roof. A non-UK site famous as "The cesspit of the internet" hasn't bothered to implement any controls, because they don't operate financially in the UK, and a popular browser has its own built-in VPN. Then there's the TOR browser, newsgroups, and a myriad of other toutes you can get hold of the content the UK .gov wishes to preclude access to.
So while I'm alarmed about the potential for online censorship, I also remain happy that there will be a way around it. I am equally aware that anyone with a handful of braincells to rub together will work this out. Similarly guides to work around this will be shared, samizdat style, amongst those who are unable to.
Like Farage, I don't have a comprehensive answer. It would have ben easier in the days of shared computing and locked accounts, but the current legislation does not take into account the massive changes to internet access over the last 30 years or so.
Final point and then I'll shut up. While Peter Kyle's comment was unbelievably crass, perhaps Farage owes his own apology to the people of the UK for the economic and social damage of his recent pet project, Brexit, before asking for any apology for anything. Motes and beams, and all that.
Apologies for the couple of typoes. Was on mobile. Toutes should of course have been routes; ben was a case of a missed e. Not certain how frog faced dipshit got turned into Farage though :-)
Thanks for that considered comment, Dajve...very much appreciated.
I agree about the legislation - it's definitely at the shonky end of the spectrum. What we need is for those with the finest minds and the most relevant lived experience to get on with finding a workable solution to these problems. None of that will be helped by Farage's tendency to present 'brain farts' as a basis for some future Reform government.
Thanks also. As a corollary, UK .gov has been trying to block The Pirate Bay since, I think, 2012. Its still thoroughly accessible. If the then government and legislature can't block a torrent site with occasional donation drives, how the heck would we expect them to tackle multi-billion dollar industries?
Not to mention that pornography can be downloaded via Tango Papa Bravo.
I think my point about the evolution of internet access needs some clarification though. I saw many cases in the late 1990s and early nothings where there was a shared, family PC and effectively the idea of someone looking over to see what someone was accessing seemed largely self-policing. Now that a large proportion of those this legislation are trying to 'protect' have their own devices, or can buy them relatively cheaply (a reasonable burner phone can be bought for about £30) I think the genie is out of the bottle.
...
Reads recent articles about preventing children from owning smartphones - oh dear.
We've had laws governing children's access to printed and film pornography for many decades. Why is the digital world any different ? Reform constantly bang on about people jailed for incitement online but incitement is illegal in any context and has been since the 1980s - their argument seems to be if crime is committed online it's OK. We all realise the legislation isn't perfect - as a kid I got into see very violent X rated films in the 1970s but doing something and then improving on it is better than doing nothing. The argument that it isn't perfect is always rolled out by these old farts but if you apply the same argument to banking for example (that there is lots of fraud er go we should close the banks) they defend imperfection to the hilt. Farage is a dangerous pub bore who's funding comes from extremely questionable sources, we should all beware of his destructive intentions. He's also astonishingly thick; witness Trump dumping him after his cringing kowtowing and grovelling on numerous visits to the US when he should have been doing constituency work (which you and I pay for) and when it was obvious to most of that Trump has no loyalty to people he uses and Farage would inevitably end up on the 'losers' scrapheap just like Bannon, Cohen and many other MAGA acolytes. Farage didn't have the intelligence to see this because, like Trump, he's purely transactional.
It's the stopped-clock fallacy (a stopped clock is right 2x a day). But nevertheless, Farage is completely right about this: The OSB is a really bad idea - and OpenRightsGroup.org explain why.
Fundamentally, digital privacy is so utterly vital to our democracy and free speech that it must not be sacrificed for the idea of "protecting children" - especially when that protection cannot and will not work in practice.
You're right, Richard. The OSA is definitely a flawed piece of legislation. But it is over 300 pages long, contains 12 parts of over 200 clauses, covering a multitude of issues. Farage's immediate jump to 'repeal' shows just how much thinking he did on the matter. I wonder whether he takes his car to the scrap-yard crusher when he gets a flat tyre.
This badly thought out legislation is a spectacular own goal for the government and a gift to political grifters like Farage. Comparing its critics to sex offenders isn’t going to help.
Tbh, this is like two toothless folk fighting over a toothbrush. What the minister claimed is that this law stops nonces from accessing kids chats and games, but it does not one bit. Then you have that creepy farage who also doesn't understand anything about it. And nobody probably in Westminster even understands anything about VPNs
Farage has always been a fire starter, he is capable of nothing of any substance. Taxpayers paid that prick a very handsome salary to represent this country in the EU government, he abused everyone and everything and was intent on trying to destroy the EU, not once did he properly try to represent this country for the better. He just pushed his own selfish ideology with nothing more than, destroy, destroy, destroy. He should be starved of oxygen, not given airtime for his arson.
Until the government work out where their arse is in relation to their elbows there is always going to be screwups. It would make little difference which party was in government because ultimately they are all the same. Labour are proving that they are particularly inept and this particular instance of stupidity has damaged them further. I suspect that the general population will further abandon Blue Labour and sign up to Farage’s bile.
If that happens and the Reform party form a government then judging in their performance in councils up and down the country, we, as a country will further enhance our reputation for being completely bereft of any intelligence as ordinary folk will look back on this stupidity with a wry smile and say “at least our kids are safe with Nigel”
I have nothing against protecting the people who are not able to distinguish right from wrong but to implement a law that has been criticised so widely is what I consider to be idiotic and either they consider it a vote winning idea or it’s yet another way of clamping down on us before we finally descend into authoritarianism with a power crazed, working class tosser at the helm. Piloting us rapidly into a grim dystopian world strikes me as a recipe for mass civil disobedience. I personally love the idea, I’m sure that there will be plenty of people that read that and think I’m a violent person. Truth be told I’m not, I’m just sick of arseholes making I’ll thought out decisions on the basis of the decisions being good for the country. Nobody is listening to what the population really wants, that sounds like a vindication of Farage’s bullshit, as I think he’s a dangerous misguided fool and a person unfit to ever be in the upper echelons of any government.
We do have a very real problem in this country in that our voting system effectively breaks the link between ordinary people and those who govern us. Until that problem is fixed, we will not get the governments we are asking for and those governments are unlikely to focus on the things we want them to focus on. I wish it weren't so but, yes, that is a classic recipe for popular unrest.
Yep, our voting system is definitely one of the factors that helps to breed resentment. The different communities in the country all have issues that governments have not listened to.
To my untrained eye, it seems that the ultimate prize in politics is to become prime l minister. I understand that, but why install someone in that position that has all the social skills of a platypus when a large portion of any politician’s time must surely be to listen. If they don’t listen, they won’t get the measure of any dissatisfaction.
I’m of an age that voted against the Conservatives in 1979 and have done ever since. I’d always been a Labour supporter that changed when their current leader became Prime Minister. As a minister it strikes me that he’s a person that has no intention of doing anything of any benefit to the country. I know tough decisions need to be made but it’s as if the payment to elderly people and the DWP debacle weren’t not based on anything other savings. Savings made at to the detriment of vulnerable people. There was no taking into account the human factor, and like the Conservatives, it seems that they look upon the less fortunate as dragging the country down. To be clear I don’t, but the people with money earned by exploiting workers do.
In summary, the country is a powder keg waiting to explode. Those politicians though, they’ll be off as quick as you like, probably burying themselves in a not so secret Cold War bunker until all the troubles subside. While in said bunker I can hear them now, muttering about how the people destroying Downing Street are morons, not understanding that built up frustration and anger caused by successive governments looking over the working class will eventually develop into a very bad situation. I mean I’m furious and have been for years.
The fact that Farage is even in a position to be thought of as being in Power is frightening. His one “success” Brexshit, has been the biggest peace time disaster this country has ever faced. He is STILL never challenged when he spouts lies and nonsense in exactly the same way Johnson was allowed to say whatever lie he wanted and look where that got us. The media is entirely to blame for this and unless that changes the country has had it. I’m just glad I, getting old now and hopefully won’t be around when it all goes completely to cock, but my kids and grandkids will and I fear for their futures even while they think I’m over-reacting.
Farage is upset that he has to provide age verification when accessing his favourite porn site. I think we should congratulate him for fessing up to his pastime, albeit obliquely.
"When Technology Secretary Peter Kyle accused Farage of siding with "people like Jimmy Savile," the language WAS inflammatory. " Inflammatory? It was much more than that. It was: a) the cheapest of cheapest shots; b) exposed how bankrupt mainstream politics is.... and why we need a new left politics to challenge both Labour and Reform. And talk about obscene: right winger Kyle heads up Labour Friends of Israel. PS: I am no Faragist. https://theleftlane2024.substack.com/p/starmer-doesnt-challenge-the-rise-b00
Seems to me that the majority of those who want this act repealed without having something else in place to safeguard children are, like trump, paedophiles interested in exploiting children for sexual gratification. I am not saying Farage is a paedophile but he is pandering to them for his own political gain.
What's often missed in these discussions is that, away from the issues related to child protection and privacy - the OSA also clamps down on foreign disinformation activities...a 'baby' that Farage might welcome going out with the bathwater if the Act was repealed in its entirety.
Absolutely, instead of throwing the entire thing out we should be lobbying (as voters) for the good bits to be kept and the bad bits changed or thrown out.
be sure to check out and read carefully a petition by rupert lowe on the uk government and parliament petition page it begins with the words mandatory collection it may well be the most important petition of recent times be sure to read its content to understand why and act accordingly it currently has 242,536, signatures it needs many more and YOU can help in getting them first be sure to sign it and most importantly be sure to reshare it widely with as many like minded people as you possibly can and be sure to ask each one of them to do exactly the same as im asking you to do in this message you are currently reading...in closing for much more information about the rape gangs be sure to check out recusant nine
Rupert Lowe seems to attract a lot of support from the knuckleheads. He’s as dangerous Farage is, I could never support any of their populist bullshit. I don’t think that anyone with an ounce of decency and a pinch of intelligence would. People who support these muppets are mental and I should know I have paperwork that shows I am.
Perhaps care in the community does work after all 🤷♂️
TBF experts told the government, as they told previous governments , that this act was a bad idea, which would not achieve the stated objectives. That Farage is jumping on it is indeed populist, but that doesn't make him wrong. Just this once.
They did. In fact my colleagues in Open Britain and Fair Vote UK - and lots of fellow campaigners in other eminent organisations - spent an enormous amount of time and energy telling them that this legislation was flawed. But I don't remember Farage doing the same then, and I think it's incumbent on someone who holds himself out as the next Prime Minister to table constructive alternatives before taking such a bold position.
What does expose him as "wrong" is having no better substitute. It is wrong for a potential government to basically say it has no plan or no intention of fixing harms - social, economic or otherwise.
This is simply an admission of unfitness for the job. Complaining about the state of the country but standing on a platform of doing nothing about it is an original approach, to say the least
You beat me to it, Matt. Hear hear. 👏
🙇♂️
Although I loathe Farage, I think he has the tiniest, homeopathic point here. I was opposing this legislation in early 2019. As a programmer who has been working as such for nearly 30 years (and was learning my trade over a decade before that) I have a pretty good understanding of how flawed this implementation was going to be.
And so it is. We've already seen VPN registrations through the roof. A non-UK site famous as "The cesspit of the internet" hasn't bothered to implement any controls, because they don't operate financially in the UK, and a popular browser has its own built-in VPN. Then there's the TOR browser, newsgroups, and a myriad of other toutes you can get hold of the content the UK .gov wishes to preclude access to.
So while I'm alarmed about the potential for online censorship, I also remain happy that there will be a way around it. I am equally aware that anyone with a handful of braincells to rub together will work this out. Similarly guides to work around this will be shared, samizdat style, amongst those who are unable to.
Like Farage, I don't have a comprehensive answer. It would have ben easier in the days of shared computing and locked accounts, but the current legislation does not take into account the massive changes to internet access over the last 30 years or so.
Final point and then I'll shut up. While Peter Kyle's comment was unbelievably crass, perhaps Farage owes his own apology to the people of the UK for the economic and social damage of his recent pet project, Brexit, before asking for any apology for anything. Motes and beams, and all that.
Apologies for the couple of typoes. Was on mobile. Toutes should of course have been routes; ben was a case of a missed e. Not certain how frog faced dipshit got turned into Farage though :-)
Don't worry about the spooling mistaks! We all make 'em! I always welcome comments from thoughtful Ugly Politix readers...typos or no typos. 🙏
Thanks for that considered comment, Dajve...very much appreciated.
I agree about the legislation - it's definitely at the shonky end of the spectrum. What we need is for those with the finest minds and the most relevant lived experience to get on with finding a workable solution to these problems. None of that will be helped by Farage's tendency to present 'brain farts' as a basis for some future Reform government.
Thanks also. As a corollary, UK .gov has been trying to block The Pirate Bay since, I think, 2012. Its still thoroughly accessible. If the then government and legislature can't block a torrent site with occasional donation drives, how the heck would we expect them to tackle multi-billion dollar industries?
Not to mention that pornography can be downloaded via Tango Papa Bravo.
I think my point about the evolution of internet access needs some clarification though. I saw many cases in the late 1990s and early nothings where there was a shared, family PC and effectively the idea of someone looking over to see what someone was accessing seemed largely self-policing. Now that a large proportion of those this legislation are trying to 'protect' have their own devices, or can buy them relatively cheaply (a reasonable burner phone can be bought for about £30) I think the genie is out of the bottle.
...
Reads recent articles about preventing children from owning smartphones - oh dear.
All good points.
We've had laws governing children's access to printed and film pornography for many decades. Why is the digital world any different ? Reform constantly bang on about people jailed for incitement online but incitement is illegal in any context and has been since the 1980s - their argument seems to be if crime is committed online it's OK. We all realise the legislation isn't perfect - as a kid I got into see very violent X rated films in the 1970s but doing something and then improving on it is better than doing nothing. The argument that it isn't perfect is always rolled out by these old farts but if you apply the same argument to banking for example (that there is lots of fraud er go we should close the banks) they defend imperfection to the hilt. Farage is a dangerous pub bore who's funding comes from extremely questionable sources, we should all beware of his destructive intentions. He's also astonishingly thick; witness Trump dumping him after his cringing kowtowing and grovelling on numerous visits to the US when he should have been doing constituency work (which you and I pay for) and when it was obvious to most of that Trump has no loyalty to people he uses and Farage would inevitably end up on the 'losers' scrapheap just like Bannon, Cohen and many other MAGA acolytes. Farage didn't have the intelligence to see this because, like Trump, he's purely transactional.
👏🙏
It's the stopped-clock fallacy (a stopped clock is right 2x a day). But nevertheless, Farage is completely right about this: The OSB is a really bad idea - and OpenRightsGroup.org explain why.
Fundamentally, digital privacy is so utterly vital to our democracy and free speech that it must not be sacrificed for the idea of "protecting children" - especially when that protection cannot and will not work in practice.
You're right, Richard. The OSA is definitely a flawed piece of legislation. But it is over 300 pages long, contains 12 parts of over 200 clauses, covering a multitude of issues. Farage's immediate jump to 'repeal' shows just how much thinking he did on the matter. I wonder whether he takes his car to the scrap-yard crusher when he gets a flat tyre.
This badly thought out legislation is a spectacular own goal for the government and a gift to political grifters like Farage. Comparing its critics to sex offenders isn’t going to help.
Tbh, this is like two toothless folk fighting over a toothbrush. What the minister claimed is that this law stops nonces from accessing kids chats and games, but it does not one bit. Then you have that creepy farage who also doesn't understand anything about it. And nobody probably in Westminster even understands anything about VPNs
Farage has always been a fire starter, he is capable of nothing of any substance. Taxpayers paid that prick a very handsome salary to represent this country in the EU government, he abused everyone and everything and was intent on trying to destroy the EU, not once did he properly try to represent this country for the better. He just pushed his own selfish ideology with nothing more than, destroy, destroy, destroy. He should be starved of oxygen, not given airtime for his arson.
Until the government work out where their arse is in relation to their elbows there is always going to be screwups. It would make little difference which party was in government because ultimately they are all the same. Labour are proving that they are particularly inept and this particular instance of stupidity has damaged them further. I suspect that the general population will further abandon Blue Labour and sign up to Farage’s bile.
If that happens and the Reform party form a government then judging in their performance in councils up and down the country, we, as a country will further enhance our reputation for being completely bereft of any intelligence as ordinary folk will look back on this stupidity with a wry smile and say “at least our kids are safe with Nigel”
I have nothing against protecting the people who are not able to distinguish right from wrong but to implement a law that has been criticised so widely is what I consider to be idiotic and either they consider it a vote winning idea or it’s yet another way of clamping down on us before we finally descend into authoritarianism with a power crazed, working class tosser at the helm. Piloting us rapidly into a grim dystopian world strikes me as a recipe for mass civil disobedience. I personally love the idea, I’m sure that there will be plenty of people that read that and think I’m a violent person. Truth be told I’m not, I’m just sick of arseholes making I’ll thought out decisions on the basis of the decisions being good for the country. Nobody is listening to what the population really wants, that sounds like a vindication of Farage’s bullshit, as I think he’s a dangerous misguided fool and a person unfit to ever be in the upper echelons of any government.
We do have a very real problem in this country in that our voting system effectively breaks the link between ordinary people and those who govern us. Until that problem is fixed, we will not get the governments we are asking for and those governments are unlikely to focus on the things we want them to focus on. I wish it weren't so but, yes, that is a classic recipe for popular unrest.
Yep, our voting system is definitely one of the factors that helps to breed resentment. The different communities in the country all have issues that governments have not listened to.
To my untrained eye, it seems that the ultimate prize in politics is to become prime l minister. I understand that, but why install someone in that position that has all the social skills of a platypus when a large portion of any politician’s time must surely be to listen. If they don’t listen, they won’t get the measure of any dissatisfaction.
I’m of an age that voted against the Conservatives in 1979 and have done ever since. I’d always been a Labour supporter that changed when their current leader became Prime Minister. As a minister it strikes me that he’s a person that has no intention of doing anything of any benefit to the country. I know tough decisions need to be made but it’s as if the payment to elderly people and the DWP debacle weren’t not based on anything other savings. Savings made at to the detriment of vulnerable people. There was no taking into account the human factor, and like the Conservatives, it seems that they look upon the less fortunate as dragging the country down. To be clear I don’t, but the people with money earned by exploiting workers do.
In summary, the country is a powder keg waiting to explode. Those politicians though, they’ll be off as quick as you like, probably burying themselves in a not so secret Cold War bunker until all the troubles subside. While in said bunker I can hear them now, muttering about how the people destroying Downing Street are morons, not understanding that built up frustration and anger caused by successive governments looking over the working class will eventually develop into a very bad situation. I mean I’m furious and have been for years.
The fact that Farage is even in a position to be thought of as being in Power is frightening. His one “success” Brexshit, has been the biggest peace time disaster this country has ever faced. He is STILL never challenged when he spouts lies and nonsense in exactly the same way Johnson was allowed to say whatever lie he wanted and look where that got us. The media is entirely to blame for this and unless that changes the country has had it. I’m just glad I, getting old now and hopefully won’t be around when it all goes completely to cock, but my kids and grandkids will and I fear for their futures even while they think I’m over-reacting.
Hear hear, Steve. 👏
Interesting that Farage is a freedom of speech campaigner provided it isn't aimed at him
Hypocrite or what!
Yeah, Farage is a bit like the Underpants Gnomes from South Park.
Phase 1: 'tear it down'
Phase 2: ?
Phase 3: Profit
Farage is upset that he has to provide age verification when accessing his favourite porn site. I think we should congratulate him for fessing up to his pastime, albeit obliquely.
"When Technology Secretary Peter Kyle accused Farage of siding with "people like Jimmy Savile," the language WAS inflammatory. " Inflammatory? It was much more than that. It was: a) the cheapest of cheapest shots; b) exposed how bankrupt mainstream politics is.... and why we need a new left politics to challenge both Labour and Reform. And talk about obscene: right winger Kyle heads up Labour Friends of Israel. PS: I am no Faragist. https://theleftlane2024.substack.com/p/starmer-doesnt-challenge-the-rise-b00
Seems to me that the majority of those who want this act repealed without having something else in place to safeguard children are, like trump, paedophiles interested in exploiting children for sexual gratification. I am not saying Farage is a paedophile but he is pandering to them for his own political gain.
What's often missed in these discussions is that, away from the issues related to child protection and privacy - the OSA also clamps down on foreign disinformation activities...a 'baby' that Farage might welcome going out with the bathwater if the Act was repealed in its entirety.
Absolutely, instead of throwing the entire thing out we should be lobbying (as voters) for the good bits to be kept and the bad bits changed or thrown out.
I disagree. Farage is right about the curbs and the labour attack was low level and embarrassing .
On the labour party page they posted THREE separate articles within 2 hours today....ABOUT FARAGE!!
With his picture! Do the job you should be doing not posting smears and rubbishing an opponent.
GOVERNMENT, GOVERN.
be sure to check out and read carefully a petition by rupert lowe on the uk government and parliament petition page it begins with the words mandatory collection it may well be the most important petition of recent times be sure to read its content to understand why and act accordingly it currently has 242,536, signatures it needs many more and YOU can help in getting them first be sure to sign it and most importantly be sure to reshare it widely with as many like minded people as you possibly can and be sure to ask each one of them to do exactly the same as im asking you to do in this message you are currently reading...in closing for much more information about the rape gangs be sure to check out recusant nine
Rupert Lowe seems to attract a lot of support from the knuckleheads. He’s as dangerous Farage is, I could never support any of their populist bullshit. I don’t think that anyone with an ounce of decency and a pinch of intelligence would. People who support these muppets are mental and I should know I have paperwork that shows I am.
Perhaps care in the community does work after all 🤷♂️