Waxy-Lemon disgusts me. He is not a Tommy. Tommies died in their thousands in two world wars to stop people like him. For Starmer to indulge in knee-jerk politics is not why he was voted in.
Great article. If you want more people to press the like and re stack buttons have another set of them where people finish reading, I know that it doesn’t take much time and effort to scroll back to the top but if like me you are faced with upward of 100 new emails to deal with each day each little bit of time saved counts. Thanks
Absolutely spot on as usual. I'm horrified to say nothing of extremely disappointed and let down by this government that I had such high hopes for. This is not a Labour government I don't know what it is actually but it doesn't seem very different from the last one that wrecked the country over a 15 year rule of disaster. We are at the point now where there is literally no alternative it doesn't matter who you vote for the result is the same. I don't live in a marginal seat I live in a very safe Labour seat and before that I lived in a very safe Tory seat. I still used to vote because I think you should but it was completely pointless as the result was a foregone conclusion before the polls ever opened.
I have always been a supporter of PR because this country has always been ruled by a minority government, even Thatcher at her height only had around 42% of the vote I think. I'm 72 now and I despair at the way the country and the world is headed and I'm fairly glad I probably won't be in it to see the end result but my children will & my grandchildren will. The biggest threat of course is the non-dom billionaire owned, extreme right wing media which dominates discourse in the UK even though nobody buys the bloody things anymore.
Keep up the good work hopefully at some point somebody will see sense
I'm in complete agreement with the article, reeling with horror at the government attitude to migration, and have supported the notion of a fair voting system for many years.
Yet I'm still unsure of what PR should mean. Can anyone help by stating which of the many PR voting systems is the one we should support? And then state it, and stick with this one, eliminating the confusion which is there for the opposition to exploit?
Yes, agreed. But it works the other way too, any vagueness is a weakness in the task of persuasion; this is a difficult nut to crack. My own researches have left me unsure of the single best system… I consider myself engaged and not entirely stupid but would find myself hard put to persuade any sceptic when it came down to the detail . The burnt fingers over the AV referendum reinforce your point. But I suppose it was chosen as the system most likely not to appeal.
Yes, of course I did that a while back, as I'm sure everyone with a vote has done (surely the universal franchise has turned us all into responsible citizens?). My point remains: how to persuade anyone to vote for 'PR' without knowing what they're getting… PR is after all only a principle, not a system. But I'll continue to hold the torch for PR and try to muster clearer arguments for the many who apparently haven't even heard of it.
Sorry, it was not obvious (to me at least) that you are aware of the ERS. I agree we need to keep explaining that STV is the best system, and that for voters it's as easy as 1, 2, 3.
I think discussion about which is the most appropriate model has to be part of the debate once a change decision is made. We agree FPTP is entirely unsuitable and we want an electoral system that returns a more representative (sic) Parliament. No PR model is ideal (there's some great analysis out there which shows the impact of different models applied to past election voting patterns) so any we state is "the way" sets up a target for those who like minority rule.
Sad, but not surprising that the Labour dog is being wagged by the Farage tail.
The Tories capitulated in exactly the same way over Europe, culminating in Brexit - and just look how that panned out.
Europe was never a burning issue for people, nor was immigration.
On the subject of Labour pandering and mimicking Reformlite I find it personally sickening and am so glad that I ditched my membership years ago after they started to expel good socialists like Corbyn and Ken Loach.
For me those were the warning signs that this bunch were just Tory wannabes and now even worse Reform wannabes.
I have been a lifelong labour supporter. I guess inherited from my parents. I can't believe the language I'm hearing from them, and it's pushed me join the Green Party as a paid member. I've never done this for anyone before.
Me too! I have found it hard to stomach many of the things Labour has been “supporting” since they got into power. I finally gave up and joined the Greens too
Well done Mark. I am a moderator ( still!) of the GET PR DONE! Facebook group. Just posted your piece there and put "@everyone" in the comments box. Should go out to +2,000 people. Cheers, Alan Story, editor THE LEFT LANE https://theleftlane2024.substack.com/ PS: Just about to write my own piece on this madness over migration. Going to try to connect the dots with Sudan.
A very well-presented article that reinforces my own view. I have supported FPTP for a number of years now, and will continue to do so until this failing country of ours finally comes to its senses and listens to its people. Zarah is right, we are now in a class war against those who would keep us down and fighting each other. As we all know, Divide & Conquer works for the ruling class. As PBS said in his wonderful poem (I paraphrase, forgive me) There are and always will be far more of us than them) SOLIDARITY and Thank you.
This is the single most disgusting thing that Labour has done, even greater than its previous targeting of the poorest and most vulnerable among us. They have betrayed everything they have traditionally stood for, and as a result will almost certainly lose the majority of their voters, sending us even farther to the right.
It's the hope that kills you....what a shocking disappointment the Labour government have been. Headless, insensitive to need with similar paymasters to the broken tories......how different it could have been.......
Waxy-Lemon disgusts me. He is not a Tommy. Tommies died in their thousands in two world wars to stop people like him. For Starmer to indulge in knee-jerk politics is not why he was voted in.
He's chosen a resonant name: tommies, folk hero Robin Hood. Look how English I am!
Great article. If you want more people to press the like and re stack buttons have another set of them where people finish reading, I know that it doesn’t take much time and effort to scroll back to the top but if like me you are faced with upward of 100 new emails to deal with each day each little bit of time saved counts. Thanks
Absolutely spot on as usual. I'm horrified to say nothing of extremely disappointed and let down by this government that I had such high hopes for. This is not a Labour government I don't know what it is actually but it doesn't seem very different from the last one that wrecked the country over a 15 year rule of disaster. We are at the point now where there is literally no alternative it doesn't matter who you vote for the result is the same. I don't live in a marginal seat I live in a very safe Labour seat and before that I lived in a very safe Tory seat. I still used to vote because I think you should but it was completely pointless as the result was a foregone conclusion before the polls ever opened.
I have always been a supporter of PR because this country has always been ruled by a minority government, even Thatcher at her height only had around 42% of the vote I think. I'm 72 now and I despair at the way the country and the world is headed and I'm fairly glad I probably won't be in it to see the end result but my children will & my grandchildren will. The biggest threat of course is the non-dom billionaire owned, extreme right wing media which dominates discourse in the UK even though nobody buys the bloody things anymore.
Keep up the good work hopefully at some point somebody will see sense
I'm in complete agreement with the article, reeling with horror at the government attitude to migration, and have supported the notion of a fair voting system for many years.
Yet I'm still unsure of what PR should mean. Can anyone help by stating which of the many PR voting systems is the one we should support? And then state it, and stick with this one, eliminating the confusion which is there for the opposition to exploit?
Yes, agreed. But it works the other way too, any vagueness is a weakness in the task of persuasion; this is a difficult nut to crack. My own researches have left me unsure of the single best system… I consider myself engaged and not entirely stupid but would find myself hard put to persuade any sceptic when it came down to the detail . The burnt fingers over the AV referendum reinforce your point. But I suppose it was chosen as the system most likely not to appeal.
So what is your choice?
STV. Go to the Electoral Reform Society website for now it works...
Yes, of course I did that a while back, as I'm sure everyone with a vote has done (surely the universal franchise has turned us all into responsible citizens?). My point remains: how to persuade anyone to vote for 'PR' without knowing what they're getting… PR is after all only a principle, not a system. But I'll continue to hold the torch for PR and try to muster clearer arguments for the many who apparently haven't even heard of it.
Sorry, it was not obvious (to me at least) that you are aware of the ERS. I agree we need to keep explaining that STV is the best system, and that for voters it's as easy as 1, 2, 3.
Well, we'll keep fighting the good fight
I think discussion about which is the most appropriate model has to be part of the debate once a change decision is made. We agree FPTP is entirely unsuitable and we want an electoral system that returns a more representative (sic) Parliament. No PR model is ideal (there's some great analysis out there which shows the impact of different models applied to past election voting patterns) so any we state is "the way" sets up a target for those who like minority rule.
Sad, but not surprising that the Labour dog is being wagged by the Farage tail.
The Tories capitulated in exactly the same way over Europe, culminating in Brexit - and just look how that panned out.
Europe was never a burning issue for people, nor was immigration.
On the subject of Labour pandering and mimicking Reformlite I find it personally sickening and am so glad that I ditched my membership years ago after they started to expel good socialists like Corbyn and Ken Loach.
For me those were the warning signs that this bunch were just Tory wannabes and now even worse Reform wannabes.
I have been a lifelong labour supporter. I guess inherited from my parents. I can't believe the language I'm hearing from them, and it's pushed me join the Green Party as a paid member. I've never done this for anyone before.
Me too! I have found it hard to stomach many of the things Labour has been “supporting” since they got into power. I finally gave up and joined the Greens too
This is a bery perceptive logical & well written article. Why isn't it in a leading newspaper?
Starmer reminds me of that old saying about lawyers who know everything about the letter of the law but nothing about the spirit.
This is unbelievable, and certainly not what I voted for.
Well done Mark. I am a moderator ( still!) of the GET PR DONE! Facebook group. Just posted your piece there and put "@everyone" in the comments box. Should go out to +2,000 people. Cheers, Alan Story, editor THE LEFT LANE https://theleftlane2024.substack.com/ PS: Just about to write my own piece on this madness over migration. Going to try to connect the dots with Sudan.
A very well-presented article that reinforces my own view. I have supported FPTP for a number of years now, and will continue to do so until this failing country of ours finally comes to its senses and listens to its people. Zarah is right, we are now in a class war against those who would keep us down and fighting each other. As we all know, Divide & Conquer works for the ruling class. As PBS said in his wonderful poem (I paraphrase, forgive me) There are and always will be far more of us than them) SOLIDARITY and Thank you.
What does he think he's going to achieve as this is clearly just to save his job . He has to go asap.
This is the single most disgusting thing that Labour has done, even greater than its previous targeting of the poorest and most vulnerable among us. They have betrayed everything they have traditionally stood for, and as a result will almost certainly lose the majority of their voters, sending us even farther to the right.
Sad
Shocking morally but they have not thought this through. Wont stop the small boats!
It's the hope that kills you....what a shocking disappointment the Labour government have been. Headless, insensitive to need with similar paymasters to the broken tories......how different it could have been.......